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March 11, 2010

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GEN X Vermonter

If we want 60% graduation rate from our colleges, just lower the bar. That's what's been happening in our High schools. Students are being pushed from grade to grade. Nobody stays back anymore. There is no flunking like there was 30 to 40 years ago. So sure 80% of High school students graduate, but how many of them would have graduated back 30 years ago? Probably closer to 60%. And this doesn't even scratch the surface of the percentage of useful college degrees our kids are graduating with theses days. Its great to have a $80,000 4 year college degree and work at the local super market. Really doing that liberal arts degree justice. We need to stop focusing on the "oh I have a degree" fact and look into what can be done to "train and educate" our student workforce for a Career not a "Badge". Lets face it, if college was state funded and the students did not have to pay, 80% of students would have some sort of degree. There are at least 5 "colleges" here in VT alone that will let you create-your-own degree.

Ed G. Mann

Last night, NBC Nightly News, for once, did a damming piece on education and learning. There not quite the same thing.
Seems the Progressive/liberal methodology has raised the rest of the world up while the US remained constant.

Or maybe I have the chart upside down and we dropped into the bottom third of the educational world as to graduating students from HS and college that can actually DO SOMETHING.

You have another huge problem too! The teachers in today's classrooms went through that same horrible Progressive/liberal mess that the media finally looked at in disgust.
Most of them were indoctrinated rather than educated. Gorites and greenies, butterflies and rainbows, your son gets honors in self-esteem.

DJ Butterfield

First, let me say how much I enjoy the "Tiger". Kudos to all who submit informative, entertaining articles.
Secondly, perhaps if a higher education did not bankrupt not only the students, but their parents, who, for those who don't know, are BY FEDERAL LAW, required to support the education of their children until they reach the age of 24. The only exception to this is if the parent(s) abused the child. I have become an expert on educating children -- 5 to date, with the last 3 still attending. Three attended private universities in NY, MA and NH. The remaining two - public universities in NH. My husband and I are not wealthy, hell, far from it. I work as a paralegal, my husband drives tractor-trailer. We currently carry 142,000 in education debt. Combine that with our mortgage, the two payments alone total $2600 per month. Our monthly payments have left us eating oatmeal. Vacation (well, maybe a trip to buy more oatmeal!). My husband and I have sacrificed our future, retirement and lives for our kids' education. And don't tell me we were stupid, that parents should not borrow for their kids' education. We tried to play that card with the various educational institutions, it doesn't work. Even VSAC doesn't help. The Advantage Loans used to be available to students without a co-signer. Thanks to the Legislature, they now require one. Do you want to co-sign my child's loan???? Who does that leave? That's a no-brainer. All five of my kids work(ed) through college. At this very moment, my daughter (sophomore in NH) works 40 hours per week, carrying 18 credits. Our two sons work 30 -35 hours per week. One is off campus, paying his own rent, utilities, etc., just to minimize the loans needed to attend. And, how about those "college friendly" interest rates???? Ours (Plus) are capped at, let's see - 9%. When I inquired of VSAC as to the high rates at a time when interest is 0%, I was told to thank George Bush. Great, like he'd care! Did anyone ever stop to consider that kids are dropping out of college, or simply not going to begin with, because they cannot AFFORD to. If Mom and Dad do not help (regardless of the dribble coming out of the mouths of the "experts" who say parents do not need to help)kids don't go. Instead of commissioning studies, how about some of the geniuses who lack any common sense at all, defer to those of us who know what the "system" is doing to us. Not every parent wants to live like my husband and I do -- there are a lot of folks that just cannot stomach oatmeal!!!

Peter Walcott

Thank you Emerson.

What if we once again graded students based on how well they learned relative to their potential rather than to some minimum standard (lowest common denominator). What if we replaced the current system of Carnegie Units (the number of hours a student spends in a given class, also known as credits)with a system based on how well a student learned a subject, and was able to apply that subject to a real-world, twenty-first century situation. Would it raise the percentage of Vermont students who went on to post-secondary education? I don't know, but certainly more Vermont students would be better prepared to do so.

P.S. Did everyone see the results of the Gates Foundation Survey to 40,000 teachers released March 3, 2010? If not, check it out at www.mediaroom.scholastic.com/node/306.

GreggB

Maybe these VT HS school students are smarter than you are giving them credit for. Why get a college degree if you are going to live in VT? Just be a waste of 4 years and tens of thousands of dollars.

Paul

5 "colleges" here in VT alone that will let you create-your-own degree."

And if you are lucky enough to attend Goddard (and some classes at UVM)you can even create your own grade...guess it's called "self-grading".

Justin

Not very impressive figures for us... Hopefully this doesn't include those getting a GED.

Question - I'm not understanding how this graduation rate is being calculated. http://education.vermont.gov/new/pdfdoc/data/dropout/educ_dropout_completion_08_rev.pdf
shows a dropout rate of 3.25% per HS grade year, which is fairly representational of years past as well. This would seem to give a graduation rate closer to 90% than 80% by my calculations. Am I missing something here?

Wendy Wilton

Consolidate the public school districts to 16 and expand school choice, to include VT's approved independent schools, and you will see the HS grad rate change for the better. The time is now to implement this with the Ed Fund headed for a cliff.
There is not enough college financial aid for most VT families, which is a real problem for college completion. VSAC has an army of employees, sends out fancy brochures, but the money is hardly forthcoming. To make matters worse, the legislature coud have used the tobacco settlement money to shore up scholarship funds for Vermonters attending VT colleges, or better suported UVM and the VSC, but created Catamount healthcare with it instead. You can thank Peter Welch, Gaye Symington and Jim Condos for that decision.

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