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October 30, 2009

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Comments

GreggB

Should people move back to Vermont to get smart grid jobs?

Chris Campion

Tom, while this type of federal investment is really the only kind that provides real dividends to the taxpayers (the road-building analogy here is an apt one), that the smart grid will suddenly broaden and increase our state's tax base is a leap that defies logic. Nothing else has changed in the tax structure of the state, which has systematically built decades of disincentives to economic growth here. That has not changed. State spending went up in a recession, and was only supported through our tax dollars (and foreign borrowing) funneled back to us from Patriarchal Sam.

In many ways, the smart grid is like building a very modern, fast, and economical highway - but that doesn't mean anyone is going to be around to use it. The other costs of doing business in the state need to change or you will be hearing the word "under-utilization" regarding the smart grid for decades to come.

Richard

Mr. Evslin,

Thank you for your service to Vermont.

I, for one, have lost almost all faith and trust in most of Vermont's political class.

You, genuinely, seem different.

Others in Montpelier and our municipalities might take note.

Tom Evslin

There is no one single answer to our economic problems, as you point out. But this project creates opportunity; if we also reduce some of the constraints on economic activity including too high tax rates, we can grow the base and lower the rates even further.

Mike Bernhardt

With the skills and talents of people like Tom, and there are many in Vermont, we can and will start taking the steps to economic viability and fiscal restraint. This is a step in practical thinking. We must not let the recent past of shortsightedness become our states default position.

Brattleboro_conservative

I think this smart grid grant is nothing more than putting lipstick on a pig. One more way Montpelier can monitor citizens activities and intrude in our lives. I doubt that anyone will ever see any benefit from this piece of nonsense except of course the airheads in Montpelier.

Jerome Coleman

I thought Tom was smarter than this,after all, he's my age.!!!This dog and pony show of getting people to do their laudry at 3 am instead of 6 pm to save energy is a farce.!!! All this does is make people change they're behavior to save money and it sounds good. If enough people do this the power Co's increase their rate during the 3am time. Then when everybody decides to save money the power Co's always propose a rate increase because demand has fallen off. This has been going on since CVPS promoted electric heating for homes in the late 60's and early 70's and is just another waste of the tax payers money.When are peoeple going to wake up.!!!

Dennis Lukas

I love the part that private indivduals and rate payers will pay the 68 million needed to complete the poject,raising electric rates.I am sure that this being a well run government program that it will be built at a cost of 100 or 200 million dollars more then estimated further raising electric rates or taxes. I can see the headlines now " Vermont has the highest electrical rates in north america."

Tom Evslin

Richard:

Thank you for your kind comment

Tom Evslin

Thanks, Mike.

If anyone asked me for a list of Vermonters who have contributed their “skills and talents” to Vermont and understand where we’re going wrong and how to make it right, you’d be way up there.

As you say, past mistakes are no excuse for not building a better future.

Tom Evslin

Brattleboro:

Pls see my answers to Dennis and Jerome. This is not about we airheads in Montpelier monitoring anything; it is about utilities making a good business decision to give their customers more choice. They were going to do this anyway; it just would’ve taken longer and the benefits have come later without the stimulus money. The rest of the taxpayers in the country – who are paying for half our project – will benefit from the lessons learned including the mistakes we’re sure to make by going first.

Tom Evslin

Jerome:

See my answer to Dennis. This is about much more than peak-shaving although it is a good thing to let those who want to save money do so while preserving all of our right to use expensive peak power so long as we’re willing to pay for it and not “socializing” the extra cost as we do today.

We shouldn’t haven’t backed off of electric storage heat previously. We did so because of a combination of low oil prices, antinuclear feeling, and political correctness. Now that we can mitigate even dynamic peaks with a smart grid, we can get back on track.

Tom Evslin

Dennis:

This project is run by the utilities – not the government (although government funding comes with increased reporting and permitting requirements). Ratepayers and investors always pay for utility improvements (sometimes with government help); that’s not new.

Giving electrical consumers information and tools to reduce their costs makes effective rates lower and will be competitive advantage for Vermont. Reduced peak-load as a consequence of consumer choice (not government mandate), will reduce rates even for those who don’t elect to shave peak usage because of less need to build and finance peak capacity.

The biggest benefit, ironically, will be in the opportunity to INCREASE electricity use by substituting clean off peak power from Yankee and HydroQuebec for gasoline and home heating oil.

Vermont Woodchuck

This is going to prove to be one more Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid/Prescription plan/Health Care government fixit disaster.
Quickly toss carbon leads over the lines and produce a massive short to ground before this kills another sector of the private economy.

Stupidity is an incurable human condition; those that cannot figure how to save their own money deserve to spend it foolishly. This avoids SPENDING MY MONEY foolishly which the bozos in DC and state capitals have no need of more practice.

Smart grids, smart meters, smart this and that-given the rate of decrease in employment in Vermont, there won't be anyone left to turn on a light.

Chris Campion

Tom, to create financial incentives to induce power consumers to use power-intensive appliances only during off-peak hours is the best way to "unhide" costs that are essentially hidden when you charge the same rate 24/7/365. This is also one of the reasons why health care costs run so high - because the costs are set to demand levels that are often larger than they should be, simply because the costs are hidden to the consumer.

Dennis Lukas

I still say this is nonsence with huge cost over runs in the future, with the utilities adding another surcharge to the rate payers or the state picking up the tab and taxing every one for this great expereriment that the state of Vermont is the guineapig so we can work the bugs out of the smart grid.This does not solve any imediate problems and posses to creat a new one. The author sites long term goals, sorry the grace period for long term is over, the bills are due now,show me a plan that brings 10,000 good paying private sector jobs to Vermont, and oh by the way if you a manufacturing company hold your breath while we build a smart grid. This another example of if you can't dazzel the with brilliance, baffel them with bull s--t.

Tom Evslin

Dennis:

I think the time for thinking short-term only is over. Yes, we have to cut the cost of government now. We also have to build the economic base we need for the future.

Vermont Woodchuck

It's also time to stop subsidizing any and every idea that pops up. See how fast the price of everything drops after the deadwood companies go out of business.

Setback thermostats have been selling for years. Smart people took advantage of them without government intervention. Dummies need to get their mellow harshed by experience, not the smothering of the nanny state. Smart meters are no different; if people want them, they'll buy them.

Another layer of bureaucracy, siphoning off 30% of each dollar, won't improve the utilities, the economy or the taxpayer's wallet.
It will get the Union bosses to rally around the fat jowled politicians in Montpelier at election time. SOS!!!

Daniel Foty

“When the utilities finish building a smart grid statewide in the next few years, Vermont will have a stronger economy, a better job market, a cleaner environment, better broadband, a lower cost of living, and a stronger tax base to support the cost of government services with lower tax rates than would otherwise be possible.”

It's no joy to point this out, but there is no logical justification for reaching that sort of conclusion. Since it is being made with neither specific citations nor even a cursory quantitative analysis, it seems to fall clearly into what an attorney would judge by "Objection - lacks foundation."

Why will these things happen? How specifically will they happen? From whence will the necessary investment funds come? How will Vermont attract the large inflow of talent that will be necessary for new economic growth?

If we don't enforce rigorous and quantitative thinking about these problems, then we're just setting ourselves up for the latest round of wishful thinking.

To mangle something that Will Rogers once famously said, unbridled wishful-thinking had a great deal to do with getting us into the present mess; it's unlikely that further unbridled wishful thinking will get us back out.

GreggB

Green state, E-state, smartgrid- state, etc., peruse Vermont Life from the 1970's and you will find articles claiming how Vermont will seize the future and build industries based around eco-whatever-was-going-to-save-the-world-at-the-time. Vermont has been telling itself it will be a leader in one thing or another for the last 40 years. Funny thing is Vermonters still believe it. Past timme to move out and move on.

Tom Evslin

Woodchuck:

A smart meter lets customers avoid dynamic (unscheduled peaks) because it's in real-time communication with the utility. This saving is an important opportunity that hasn't existed up until now and their aren't even yet rates to reflect it.

Utilities actually have enough cost-saving just from avoiding onsite meter reading, from remote turnups and turndowns, and much better outage info for faster repairs to justify the meters. There are not yet accepted general standards for meter communication so the device isn't something we can go buy at Best Buy.

Net: universal installation by the utilities makes sense and would have been done in eight to ten years anyway. The federal money (which is really ours anyway) will let us do the job faster and get the benefits sooner.

Tom Evslin

Daniel:

Granted that my post is a lot of top level assertions without backup. However,you shouldn't assume that, because I didn't cite the planning and analysis, it doesn't exist.

I will post more of the planning and reasoning behind the smart grid project in the weeks to come. I don't ask you to believe the assertions without the backup but do ask that you keep an open mind.

Tom Evslin

GreggB:

If you want to "move out and move on", that's up to you. I like it here so I'm gonna stay and see if I can help Vermont move on.

GreggB

I've already moved on as have many of my friends. I've no doubt you and many others are sincere in trying to help VT. But I've seen enough to know better. VT doesn't have a prosperous future just as Vermont has never had a prosperous past. Seems a disservice to continuously claim the next big thing is right around the corner. Of course those willing/dumb enough to wait might well deserve their fate.

Dennis Lukas

I think every one would like to see the real business plan for this smart grid, and you have not addressed the cost over run issue.Your sounding like our other czars in washington.I know our environment friends antennas were raised by "up grading transmission lines".Lets see the business plan,and ALL the companies involved in this.Other wise there is no sustance to any of this technological wonder.

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